I find this to be unusual. It seems that sometime between July 23rd 2011 or later and May 31st 2012, ebay quietly changed it’s shill bidding policy from this:
What are the guidelines?
Restricted
Using Buy It Now or a fixed price format to buy an item from someone you know, as long as you don’t violate our Feedback manipulation or search and browse manipulation policies
Not allowed
To this (the current verbiage.)
What are the guidelines?
Restricted
Buying an item from someone you know, as long as you don’t intend to artificially increase its price or desirability or violate our Feedback manipulation or search and browse manipulation policies
Not allowed
Bidding on your own items with another account
As you can see, those are quite substantial changes.
I have searched the ebaY announcements and forums extensively now, finding nothing announcing or referring to this alteration.
June 9, 2012:
To update a bit here.
I’ve located indication the shill bidding policy existed in it’s former state here in September 2011.
Also this search on Blekko, which is for exact, partial verbiage of the former policy language, indicates that the page was likely changed much much later than that, however long since Blekko’s last crawl. Note that I captured this on June 3rd, 2012. That is very telling.
(click thumbnails to enlarge in a new tab or window)
Furthermore, I’ve examined the shill bidding policy or corresponding page of each and every English language ebaY site on the planet and found that nowhere else was language regarding employees bidding on their employer’s auctions removed other than the USA. Try it yourself.
Here is an example. Ebay India Shill Bidding Policy page. You’ll notice the language regarding employees bidding, with basically only the names in the examples changed.
Very curious to say the least. The implications are huge.
To complicate matters, ebay still has shill bidding tutorials in place which contain the language regarding employees disallowed to bid on their employer’s items. Those pages are nearly identical worldwide.
Update 06-12-2012: It seems the shill bidding tutorials for the USA have been altered as well. Learn more.
As far as the USA, there is some blatantly conflicting info being is being dispensed on ebay’s pages: the shill bidding policy Vs shill bidding tutuorial.
This discovery also comes on the heels of a full blown scandal involving VH1’s “House of Consignment” TV reality star, ebay seller and edropoff owner Corri McFadden, who is accused of shill bidding and now being criticized for censorship and abuse of both critics and the court system, with an attempt to silence her critics with a SLAPP.
The changes to the policy would make it very easy for ebaY to claim the alleged shill bidder was acting within the rules. So finding exactly when that policy was changed may be a crucial fact with regards to that matter.
I’m wondering whether ebay may make a statement as to when and why this policy was changed?
See this update:
ebaY’s Secret Shill Bidding Policy and Tutorial Changes Revisited
Cappnonymous 
June 4, 2012 at 6:50 am
eBay’s policy on shill bidding is irrelevant. Throughout the civilized world, shill bidding, no matter who actually does it, is considered to be criminal fraud, and it is as plain as the noses on our faces that habitual and rampant shill bidding wire fraud is (still) occurring on eDropOff’s auctions.
The only question that still remains unanswered is, when is a Federal prosecutor finally going to take up the matter of eBay’s blatant ongoing facilitation of such rampant wire fraud?
June 5, 2012 at 4:53 pm
I’m don’t know how to read a spreadsheet and am not a shill bidding or ebay aficionado. How does your spreadsheet at: http://bit.ly/MJlM6b prove to me and the people who don’t read spreadsheets or know every tiny detail about ebay that there is any shill bidding going on? Is there some other form you can present that in to make the info more easily understandable and palatable? Put another way, if this were a trial and you were a lawyer, would you just thrown an elephant folio volume at the jury and tell them the proof is in there somewhere?
June 5, 2012 at 11:37 pm
Corrie McFadden, Is that you??
June 6, 2012 at 6:51 pm
Without some type of breakdown, whatever is listed in that file isn’t even worth opening.
Do you have any facts written in plain english from your data you can share with the world?
Can you tell us how the data was collected?
Is/was it compared to any test or control groups?
Can you quantify the problem.
How many victims were there?
How many shills were there?
What are the dollar amounts involved?
How many items are being won by alleged shill bidders as opposed to the legitimate bidders??
What actually happens to the items “won” by the shills?
Are they relisted on ebay? – If so, how many/what percentage?
Pointing to a big pile of rocks doesn’t amount to giving away gold nuggets.
June 6, 2012 at 7:16 pm
Corrie McFadden, Is that you, again?
June 6, 2012 at 8:07 pm
@Philip Charles Cohen
No. Absolutely not. I have no connection to that person or any of her interests.
Now, are you going to answer the questions?
Or will you just deflect with another misdirected ad hominem response?
June 6, 2012 at 8:23 pm
I have no urge to debate issues with a person who is clearly incapable of seeing the forest for the trees, nor is capable of reading a spreadsheet; now go away Corri.
June 6, 2012 at 8:46 pm
Thank you for sharing your master debater skills with us Mr. Cohen.
Your spreadsheet is meaningless without interpretation and/or adherence to accepted scientific methodologies.
June 6, 2012 at 8:59 pm
And you cannot even read a spreadsheet, so you say …
Buzz off troll, stop wasting our time …
January 4, 2014 at 4:04 pm
No one with an ounce of common sense would have peeps read a spreadsheet when the program for it makes graphs of the data. A spreadsheet is only a repository. What takes forever to digest in a spreadsheet takes seconds to understand when done properly. You know, the way it’s MADE to do. If you can’t put some graphics and or numbers up you are just trolling and spamming.
June 6, 2012 at 11:58 pm
If anyone knows an up and coming federal or states’ attorney that would like to make a name for him/herself then this matter surely is a gift; I can see the headline now:
“eBay Guilty of Rampant Wire Fraud
“Found to be the greatest criminal facilitator of massive wire fraud on consumers the world over.
“The penalty phase is to follow; penalties are expected to be in the billions of dollars.
CA could use that sort of money, I hear …
April 21, 2013 at 7:02 am
I see you’ve already been asked :
Can you tell us how the data was collected?
Is/was it compared to any test or control groups?
Can you quantify the problem.
How many victims were there?
How many shills were there?
What are the dollar amounts involved?
How many items are being won by alleged shill bidders as opposed to the legitimate bidders??
What actually happens to the items “won” by the shills?
Are they relisted on ebay? – If so, how many/what percentage?
Do you have a reply to these questions?
What kind of researcher refuses to gives the parameters of the research? What kind of researcher are you? Tell us.
The only headline I see is
“Philip Cohen, troll, spammer, assclown”
June 8, 2012 at 7:24 pm
Pseudoscience is a claim, belief, or practice which is presented as scientific, but does not adhere to a valid scientific method, lacks supporting evidence or plausibility, cannot be reliably tested, or otherwise lacks scientific status.[1] Pseudoscience is often characterized by the use of vague, exaggerated or unprovable claims, an over-reliance on confirmation rather than rigorous attempts at refutation, a lack of openness to evaluation by other experts, and a general absence of systematic processes to rationally develop theories.
A field, practice, or body of knowledge can reasonably be called pseudoscientific when it is presented as consistent with the norms of scientific research, but it demonstrably fails to meet these norms.[2] Science is also distinguishable from revelation, theology, or spirituality in that it offers insight into the physical world obtained by empirical research and testing.[3] Commonly held beliefs in popular science may not meet the criteria of science.[4] “Pop” science may blur the divide between science and pseudoscience among the general public, and may also involve science fiction.[4] Pseudoscientific beliefs are widespread, even among public school science teachers and newspaper reporters.[5]
The demarcation problem between science and pseudoscience has ethical political implications, as well as philosphical and scientific issues.[6] Differentiating science from pseudoscience has practical implications in the case of health care, expert testimony, environmental policies, and science education.[7] Distinguishing scientific facts and theories from pseudoscientific beliefs such as those found in astrology, medical quackery, and occult beliefs combined with scientific concepts, is part of science education and scientific literacy.[8]
The term “pseudoscience” is often considered inherently pejorative, because it suggests something is being inaccurately or even deceptively portrayed as science.[9] Accordingly, those labeled as practicing or advocating pseudoscience normally dispute the characterization.[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience
Good day, Sir
June 8, 2012 at 8:38 pm
Yeah, now back to your eBay cubicle, shill …
June 12, 2012 at 10:40 pm
The forum where I post my detailed criticisms of eBay has recently changed its name from auctionbytes.com to ecommercebytes.com so that all the hyperlinks thereto that I have ever posted all over the internet in the past four–five years are now broken.
If you have a weekend with nothing better to do, or you simply want to know just how unscrupulous organisations like eBay and its ugly adopted daughter, PayPal, can be, here are some selected links, primarily to do with the scourge of eBay: rampant shill bidding fraud …
eBay introduces absolute anonymity for (shill) bidders
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/forums/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=21894
eBay-Facilitated Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay Auctions: Case Study #1
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/forums/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22659
eBay-Facilitated Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay Auctions: Case Study #2
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/forums/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22904
eBay-Facilitated Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay Auctions: Case Study #3
A Study of Two eBay-Touted Power Sellers
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/forums/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22986
eBay-Facilitated Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay Auctions: Case Study #4
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/forums/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=23540
PreyPal: The New Way To Pay In-Store
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/forums/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24611
When Do We Start Calling eBay A [Failed] Payments Company?
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/forums/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24590
Some Statute Law on (Shill Bidding) Fraud
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/forums/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22923
And from along the way a compilation of (mostly inane) quotes from eBay executives:
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/forums/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24159
June 25, 2012 at 2:08 am
Obvious troll is obvious: replying to his own spam with more spam. can’t or won’t answer neutral questions, resorts to name calling and insults because reasonable replies would reveal his errors.
Most of all, the new no shill bidding policy means no shill bidding “experts”. Your internet presence became meaningless with one policy change.
Good day. :-)
July 15, 2014 at 2:55 am
don’t click any Philip Cohen person’s links. Why? search web for turning ebay data into dollars. Why else would anyone post the amount of spammy links all over the internet that he has? It’s obvious you’re being trolled and spammed.
June 25, 2012 at 3:11 am
Are you truly so “thick”, Ben? Regardless, what can I say, other than, again …
“… back to your eBay cubicle, eBay shill …”
January 25, 2015 at 3:40 pm
The sad part here is that, let’s just say that some real investigators would’ve wanted more info, being the clown you are, you would call them shills and tell them to get back into their ebay cubicle. You blew it. Good job. Not that the “study” proves a thing anyway. It’s a joke.
June 27, 2012 at 12:44 am
@ Phillip Cohen. I’ve never seen someone say so little with so many words, as in your never-ending omnipresent cut and paste spam on the evils of shill bidding, or say so much with so few as your shill-cubicle replies to simple, valid questions.
December 21, 2012 at 12:19 pm
Auction laws in all 50 states allow bidders to bid on their own items. Ebay did at one time..until they started charging to have a reserve. Then they had to ban it because it could be used to do the same thing as a reserve without paying ther fees. So they used for an example a seller charged with selling fake artwork who also created fake accounts to make it seem famous museums were bidding on the items — to make it seem the wire fraud charges were for shill bidding rather than selling fake artwork!
The ebay old shill bidding polkicy created problems for people who are bidding on items from trusted local sellers, or those who perhaps cared enough to inspect an item in person before bidding. (Do they now “know” the seller? Do they now have more knowledge than other bidders and must disqualify themselves?) Ebay drop-off stores were forced to watch their consignor’s items sell for less than their true value if an employee wanted to bid on them — hurting the consignor, who gets less for his item, and both ebay and the drop-off store, who make less commissions. The new policy is fair to all parties.
December 21, 2012 at 2:13 pm
Can you quote chapter and verse as to which “auction laws” specify that it’s OK to bid on your own items? (remember, ebay policies are NOT laws, and even they state that shill bidding is unlawful)
If the new shill bidding policy is all that, why did they change it secretly? Why no announcement? And whenever it was briefly posted to ebay forums, they deleted the post in record time.
Look, I think we all know it’s cheating and dishonest, except for the bizzarro world where a neutral is a negative because it’s not a positive, a 5 star rating system is used as a Binary scale, where no communication is 5 star communication etc…
BTW, the coin world is sure a fraud filled cluster, and I sure wouldn’t advise anyone to go near sleazebay for their coin collecting needs.
December 21, 2012 at 4:49 pm
From the State of Kentucky government website, for example.
http://auctioneers.ky.gov/terminology.html
“The seller, or someone acting on the seller’s behalf, may bid, provided that full disclosure has been made that liberty for such bidding is retained. A licensee shall not knowingly receive such a bid without this full disclosure.”
So it’s legal if disclosed…and in the USA, it’s almost ALWAYS disclosed in the fine print of the “terms and conditions” , with wording such as “consignor may participate” which is, of course, deliberately worded so as to not sound as offensive as “sellers are allowed to run up the bids,” but that is exactly what it means.
Whatever the laws are in the EU or Australia are, eBay is a USA based company, and their “shill bidding” rules are just that – rules — and Ebay can suspend violators, but thank God there are no prison sentences for violating a company policy.
Mr Cohen, an Australia-based retiree if I understand correctly, tries to mix up his own country’s determination of auction laws, with USA laws on wire fraud (that’s generally hacking a bank account online and draining it of at least $10,000, or using the telephone to sell people worthless stocks)
December 22, 2012 at 12:53 pm
So… such licenses, which were not crafted for online auctions, which ebay sellers do not possess, are not required to possess, nor operate under their terms, and the likes of which ebay lobbied against, even while the ‘community’ presented vociferous opposition to, contain provisions which allow ebay sellers to cheat people in a cyber wild west carnival sideshow price rigging stooge style scam?
Although that notion seems to be purely made of red herring flavored pettifoggery, it brings up more reasons to avoid ebay like the plague. Being completely unregulated and unlicensed, ebay users have no idea who is on the other end, and what may occur as a result of using ebay. Here’s a great example. http://bit.ly/102KEwi
Readers here can clearly see the mindset of ebay sellers. It closely resembles that of ebay. Profit at all costs. Profit above rights, above honesty…. Profits above all. As a matter of policy, you will get shilled and cheated.
There are so many other good reasons to avoid ebay, the shill bidding problem is comparatively small.
December 29, 2012 at 10:17 pm
My God, how thick can be an apparently mature adult? “Shill” bidding is UN-disclosed vendor bidding, NOT disclosed vendor bidder—sheesh …
Indeed, unless you are yourself such a shyster, you should understand that “disclosure” means disclosure at the moment the bid is made, not simply in the “fine print” on the wall … If it works any way other than by actual disclosure at the time the vendor bid is made then that is effectively fraud … and I’m not interested in hearing about what the norm is at the crooked, off-line auctions that you frequent …
Regardless, eBay auctions are online and any such fraud thereon is considered “wire” fraud; “wire fraud” is proscribed by a federal stature and therefore online fraud, such as eBay can be demonstrated as knowingly and calculatedly facilitating, is a crime in every state of the Union …
I suggest all eBay shills/employees should acquaint themselves with the definition of “fraud”, particularly that for “wire fraud”: US Criminal Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 63, §1343, “Fraud by wire, radio, or television”, viz
“Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. …”
Are you truly so thick that you are unable to comprehend that an un-disclosed vendor bid is considered to be a fraudulent pretense?
Now, those of you that are simply simple, do some reading or get some professional advice; for those of you that are simply eBay shills, go back to you eBay cubicles …
December 26, 2012 at 6:06 pm
I just ran across this:
Bill Mastro still buying cards, former collectibles king making purchases on eBay
http://nydn.us/WGW2cF
“… Mastro’s empire collapsed in 2009, when he shut down his Mastro Auctions in the midst of an FBI investigation into fraud and shill bidding, but the disgraced memorabilia king is still bidding on baseball cards on eBay, a tipster tells us. The man can’t get enough of trading cards – even though he has been charged with a crime that carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison….”
Does it really look like shill bidding is legal? Does it really look like shill bidding is *not* a federal crime?
December 28, 2012 at 2:27 pm
The Consumerist has now posted a blog regarding this issue, with a poll. Pease read it and vote.
Should Sellers’ Friends & Family Be Allowed To Place Bids On eBay Items? – http://wp.me/p2L7Ik-Grlk
December 29, 2012 at 10:42 pm
LoLz! To whom it may concern. No one posting here came from an ebay IP. They are free to do so though. If that ever was to occur they would be expected to identify themselves.
Carry on. ;p
December 29, 2012 at 11:08 pm
If we look at the “Rate This” stats, it’s pretty obvious that there has been more supporters of shill bidding, than not, at least perusing this blog; could the eBafia Don have instructed his “made men” to do their commenting from home? Or, maybe, they are simply major eBay sellers, like Corri McFadden …
Would you believe I have had a James Foster from PayPal, San Jose, California, ask to be a “friend” of mine on facebook? Possibly he forgot that his request carried his employer’s identity …
Regardless, what could he possibly learn by being a friend of mine on facebook that he has not already leant from my criticism of PreyPal at http://bit.ly/NFqjmp
eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking
December 31, 2012 at 1:22 pm
Maybe you (or anyone else reading this) could alert the ebay community on the bidding, buyer central, policies/user agreement and ‘Trust & Safety’ forums? Wouldn’t those would be the places where folks should know of this news?
January 11, 2013 at 8:22 pm
There is a seller on ebay who is using an additional account to shill. It was brought to the attention of ebay’s Answer Center from a bidder who noticed it. I checked the coin seller and sure enough, they are shill bidding. The shill account doesn’t retraction like most would. The seller is smart. He cancels the bid instead of retracting but when he is not outbid, he leaves feedback that either praises the bogus bidder or chastises them for bidding. When the seller cancels the bids, their reasons are “various”, “stop bidding” an other bogus reasons yet the seller never blocks the bidder. I’ve been tempted to ask the seller why they haven’t blocked the bidder if they don’t want them to bid but I’m afraid ebay would sanction me for transaction interence.
I’ve reported several auctions in which the shilling is going on and the feedback manipulation. So far nothing has happended but I will not give up. I will continue to report as the seller list new items and keeps using the shill account.
I wish some of the people who won would notice the shilling and state it in the feedback. That is what happened to a seller about 3 years ago. Several of the buyers noticed it and mentioned the shilling in the feedback. The seller eventually got shut down.
July 14, 2013 at 3:01 pm
You are quite right, you must not interfere in eBay’s criminal activities; and, needless to say, there is little point in reporting such matters to the calculated criminal facilitator; these days eBay is desperate and will likely not take any action even against a minion offender …
July 26, 2015 at 7:28 am
uhmm hey dude whats with the avatar? pedo much?
January 23, 2013 at 2:10 am
267philly67 is a coin seller who is using william.h1981 to shill bid.
January 25, 2013 at 3:56 am
Thank you for pointing this out.. There is a big seller of LCD’s/ LED’s Tv’s using ebay. They list many tv’s per day. I became obsessed with getting a good deal and would watch the auctions to see what day and time was best to buy.
I started watching the bidders and after about a week I started to see patterns just like the one’s you have documented in your spreadsheet. I noticed the same 3 and 4 id’s would bid the price up fairly early on in the auctions but would never win. They would have multiple bids on the auction as well as bids on many of the sellers other LCD’s. The strange patterns were up to 3 ebay bidder ids for 3 to 4 lines of LCD’s. Then I could group another 3 to 4 LCD’s lines in another group and noticed 2 to 3 ebay ids who continuously always bid on these tv’s but never won. I recall making a mental note of about 60% of the ebay id’s having zero up to 3 feedback’s. I could not believe this seller had so many new ebay buyers signing up. Then I would look and these zero feedback id’s would have at least 10 to 15 bids out on this seller at the same time. If you have not studied the 1/2 hidden ebay bidding info closely then the above may not make sense. But if you are familiar with the patterns then you will know what I am talking about.
After 3 weeks I got tired of the games and never bought a tv from this seller.
July 14, 2013 at 3:06 pm
Now, you wouldn’t be talking about quickshipelectronics and quickshipwarehouse would you?
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/forums/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=167816#post167816
February 9, 2013 at 1:21 am
Shill bidding/sniping/relisting is rampant on eBay–and they couldn’t care less because it is practiced by almost all their big money makers in electronics and collectibles. Indisputable proof of shill bidding is when some mysterious bidder comes out of nowhere and bids up the price many-fold, snipes the auction, and then the item reappears a couple days to two weeks later. Just like steroids, all the big names do it and lie about it. I stopped counting the scumbags on eBay because it became tiresome.
Do what I do: when some scumbag seller shills his own stuff, let him be an idiot and waste his time buying his own items. When he relists, bid the last price minus 5%. I did this a lot and the smarter ones eventually cave.
The only reason these scumbags are still in business is because they’re not reporting their income or inventory to tax collectors, so there’s no loss cheating people. Screw the imaginary corporate veil–the government should come down hard on sleazeBay’s senior management and board, and make them publish seller business and tax information. Businessmen have to make this information public everywhere else–but not in sleazeBay fantasy land? Then when some sleazeBay criminal triple-posts, manipulates, bait-and-switches and/or shipping-skims for profit, the victim can report him to the authorities and have his inventory and records audited. Dollars to donuts if one of these scumbags has to actually pay the tax he’s legally required to pay on his inventory, that **** is gone to the lowest bidder!
April 9, 2013 at 4:13 am
24 March 2013
Corri McFadden eDrop Off v. Midley Cases 2:12-cv-04095-GW-FMO and 1:12-cv-03632
EventHorizon1984
http://bit.ly/Y9y4Km
May 10, 2013 at 9:22 pm
Little off topic but may well be very important to people concerned about risks associated with ebay-paypal use.
June 15, 2013 at 5:17 pm
Oh lookie here: (06-15-2013)
paypal.com…
Of the 6038 pages we tested on the site over the past 90 days, 60 page(s) resulted in malicious software being downloaded and installed without user consent. …
…Malicious software includes 116 trojan(s), 18 exploit(s)…
http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=http://www.paypal.com
Dayam!
June 9, 2013 at 11:42 pm
I hate to break it to you folks, but SHILL BIDDING IS LEGAL. The Uniform Commercial Code permits it.
The only fraudulent act is not informing the public of it.
In order for a seller or auctioneer to bid on its own items, it is only required by law that they inform the public. The UCC requires a statement be made publicly that the seller reserves the right to bid on its own items.
June 10, 2013 at 2:02 pm
Yea shill bidding is legal. Ebay and their crew of shills says it is. So is getting free stuff from douchebags who operate on crooked sites. Just like selling stolen goods or even signing up dozens of fake accounts and going on Non-paying bidder sprees. So long as ebay gets their share anything goes. If someone believes they got scammed, wellm that’s just the cost of doing business.
June 15, 2013 at 5:03 pm
@Dan
Thanks for stopping by to let the world know that ebaY and it’s sellers think they’re above the law. That’s the sort of attitude we can see referenced on the Cults 101 checklist:
…The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members…
bwhahahahha yep, ebaY (and therefore it’s sellers) is above the law, so they say. Nevermind that the feds have arrested and convicted people for shill bidding.
People should also look into just what they’ve done with the Organized Retail Crime Act / Bill.
Pretty clear ebaY wants to shape… errrm, or otherwise influence laws to make obvious crime “legal” for them and their sleazy users. Spending those dirty millions lobbying must have a helluva return on investment, eh?
I hope readers here will take note that they will get cheated on sleazebay. It’s written into their policies, thoroughly ingrained in the corporate culture, and widely practiced by the rank & file members.
Someone said that *Thrill bidding* was the perfect thing for shill bidding…
June 21, 2013 at 1:58 am
New Zealand:
Minister confirms shill bidding to be crime
Wednesday, 19 June 2013
http://www.autotalk.co.nz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2871:minister-confirms-shill-bidding-to-be-crime&catid=36:government&Itemid=53
July 14, 2013 at 7:27 am
To All, I have never before heard such drivel in support of “shill bidding” on auctions, regardless of who is doing the selling.
Nobody has any problem with DISCLOSED vendor bidding, and by “disclosed” I mean that a vendor bid is disclosed as such at the time the vendor bid is made (not only in some 6pt type on the wall of the auction house); such a DISCLOSED vendor bid is simply the vendor’s statement that he will not sell for less, and any genuine bidders are entitled to know that such a bid is the seller’s and not from a competing bidder, otherwise the intent is to deceive for the purpose of making a gain, and that is fraud.
Anyway, shill bidding activity on an eBay online auction is defined as “wire fraud” which is a US federal crime, not a state crime and, as any vendor bidding is in no way disclosed as such on an eBay auction, any such shill bidding must be wire fraud, and eBay’s demonstrable and calculated facilitation of such shill bidding fraud is also a crime.
I’ll simply repeat the definition of “wire fraud”: US Criminal Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 63, §1343, “Fraud by wire, radio, or television”, viz
“Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. …”
July 26, 2013 at 9:27 pm
People who are interested in the SLAPP lawsuit aspect of this can see an interesting update here, courtesy of EventHorizon1984
The edropoff shill bidding scandal on ebay
http://bit.ly/P0TfaT
July 31, 2013 at 8:38 pm
Just when you thought Paypal couldn’t get any sleazier… Paypal’s Dirty Little Secrets; Porn & Torture http://wp.me/p46z9-JU
Please spread the word.
August 10, 2013 at 9:19 am
Another update on the SLAPP lawsuit and legal stuff here from EventHorizon1984 blog
The Corri McFadden eDrop-Off Chicago LLC Lawsuits Drag On
http://bit.ly/1bgmf9E
March 26, 2014 at 2:04 am
Ohai. Just wanted to let everyone know that Philip Cohen uses ebay to buys things. ID = philip2727. Isn’t he contributing to, if not co-conspiring with a “criminal enterprise” as he’s described ebay? Isn’t that like Elliot Ness going into Al Capone’s speakeasy each night for drinks and hookers? Doesn’t that make him a hypocrite, troll and spammer?
July 10, 2014 at 7:16 am
Of course he has used ebay to buy things, he admits as much, otherwise he would not have posted this blog page. As for his bidder identity how do you know this? Bidder identities have not been disclosed on ebay for several years. The only way you would have known his bidder identity is (A) You sold him something through an ebay auction. (B) You work for either ebay or paypal.
With regard to whether he is hypocritical, perhaps, if he is still buying things through ebay. But then again ebay is the dominant player in online auction sales, and holds a near monopoly over electronic money transfers in internet sales through paypal. This is like stating that someone is a hypocrite for having anything to do with google when 60+% off all web traffic is routed through google.
July 13, 2014 at 6:38 am
He’s a spammer. Same stupid thing every time, hundreds and thousands of times. That’s spam. Auctions only make up 30% of what they used to. How big an issue could shill bidding be? Never has he advised anyone to close accounts, shop eleswhere or offer any solutions. He is just trolling to make anyone with complaints about ebay look like idiots. He does it well.
July 13, 2014 at 7:04 am
Would anyone really keep shopping at a place they spent millions of hours bashing? Never once warn people off? Really? There’s more to this obviously. he has thousands of links that lead to auctionbytes, where your data is collected, compiled, sold, shared, and god only knows what all? “turning your ebay data into dollars” as it were. Kinda hard to trust or take that seriously huh?
July 10, 2014 at 7:02 am
I can’t believe how many posters have come onto some random fellow’s little old wordpress stage to defend shill bidding. Perhaps it may be legal, in some U.S states, for a vender of a product to bid on his own wares at a public auction, as long as it is disclosed, this is not different then setting a reserve bid. However even at such auctions, if the vender were to stack the audience at an auction, with friends and relatives, in order that they may bid up the price of whatever items he is selling, or the Auction house does the same, that’s a very different matter, that is conspiracy to commit fraud.
One point that we seem to be going around in circles over and over with is the fact that ebay is NOT a conventional auction house, it’s an internet based auction site, so not only would U.S state law apply, so would Federal law, which trumps the state ones. It also works by proxy bid, at a live auction the price you bid is the price you pay. On ebay the price you bid is the maximum price you will pay, if nobody else bids, or they bid less then your maximum, the price you will pay will only equal the last amount bid not your maximum.
If he wants a minimum price for something he can do that three ways, set a reserve, post a buy it now price, or set a minimum bid equaling the lowest price he will take. The trouble is that setting a reserve costs extra, and setting a high minimum bid means that you have to pay a higher listing fee.
But the way some look at it is why bother doing that when you can get a team of shill bidders together, or use alternate accounts, to get the price where you want it early in the auction. This is the current scam some sellers pull.
Now the trouble is that most don’t stop there, why stop at a minimum price when you can milk the bidder for all they are worth, get the shills to keep bidding until the real bidder’s proxy bid tops out. If the real bidder bids again, great, if he gets outbid by one of the shills, cancel the sale and send the real bidder a second chance offer. If the real bidder does not take the second chance offer, no harm done, just relist the item and hope another sucker gets drawn in. So a seller on ebay, getting his uncle Ernie and aunt Maisie, and the boys at the pool hall, to bid on his auctions to pump the price up, whatever the motive, is engaging in a conspiracy to commit fraud.
Of course all of the defenders of this activity say, “Well show us some evidence that it’s going on?”, or that “Shill bidding is legal”. I find this a rather curious stance from persons purporting to be disinterested parties. Well anyone who has bid on an item, only to be outbid by a previous bidder, and then magically gets a second chance offer within ten minutes of the auction closing knows what’s going on. Anyone that has seen an item sell, and get relisted three or more times before disappearing has an idea that something is not right. But with the hidden bidder identities enabling such activity, and ebay turning a blind eye to it, it is very difficult for someone outside of law enforcement or the criminal justice system to prove.
June 27, 2015 at 7:00 pm
No wonder people feel compelled to do this, buyers try to get the items for practically nothing , placing bids of 0.99p about a 1 min before the end of the auction practically stealing peoples items, if buyers would pay decent cash for stuff, sellers wouldn’t be trying to do this, its tight arsed buyers who are to blame if they were willing to give a decent price for peoples goods then it wouldnt happen would it.
July 21, 2015 at 7:20 am
The only way to save ebay is to put the FEAR of GOD into the buyers! Let them know who’s boss. If they dont like it they can go somewhere else. But at the same time dont forget that shill bidding is the biggest problem on ebay. It’s really one of the world’s biggest issues, bigger than global warning and the threat of world war 3.
November 19, 2015 at 12:40 pm
[…] More info about this policy change is here at Cappnonymous blog post on the subject. And also on a previous Cappnonymous post. […]
November 20, 2019 at 6:46 am
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